Interviews

Robin Abramović

“They don’t want anything that makes people think.”

Robin Abramović is a renowned artist, curator, and activist born in Vienna. He is the founder of Balkan Kru and known for his sociocritical urban art, including murals, stencils, and installations. His work has been commissioned by various museums and institutions across Europe. Robin’s art has gained widespread popularity through social media, and he constantly engages in new projects and festivals worldwide. He aims to stimulate his audience to think about society’s issues and finds the perfect balance between different forms of urban art. Privately, he is fulfilled and optimistic, enjoying video games and music while avoiding smartphones. (http://www.balkankru.com/fame.html)

Interviewer: Hello Robin, thank you very much for your time! We start with the first question – where are you originally from?

Robin: Maybe that’s a surprise now, but I grew up in Burgenland. So my parents fled to Austria from Croatia a long time ago because of the Turkish wars and I am therefore a Burgenland Croat. My grandfather was born in Belgrade. For example, my mother is fluent in Croatian, as is everyone else on this family site. But my mother never taught me Croatian because she was discriminated at school for being a Burgenland Croat. That’s why she raised me in German. On my father’s side my family is from Austria, but there are also ancestors from Hungary. At the moment I am not teaching my children Bosnian, Croatian or Serbian. We’re very busy learning English right now.

Interviewer: Would you call the Balkans your home?

Robin: Yes. I was born in Austria, but I feel at home in the Balkans. I also lived in Bosnia for 2 years, in Croatia for half a year and in Serbia for half a year. I get along much better with the mentality there. I am now tough and honest with the philistinism of Austria. The people in the Balkans are just much more open and relaxed.

Interviewer: Do you still have relatives in the Balkans?

Robin: Yes, in Croatia and Serbia.

Interviewer: Can you tell us something about the graffiti and street art scene in Southeastern Europe and where you grew up? How could you compare them? Are there any special elements or styles that you want to include in your work, or are there certain artists or movements that influenced or inspired you?

Robin: It also exists in Southeastern Europe, but not nearly as much as in Western Europe. I’m not there at the moment, but I’ve seen it up close for 3 years. Much of the graffiti in the Balkans is related to football or politics. It’s actually relatively little about art, I would reduce it to about 20%. The rest is about 60% football and the other 20% is some kind of political smear.

Interviewer: Are there particular elements or styles that you incorporate into your work, or are there specific artists or movements that have influenced or inspired you?

Robin: Sure. So, I’ll explain briefly: I do a mixture of graffiti, street art and a lot of other things. When it comes to stenciled street art with a political message, it’s clearly stolen from Banksy. I won’t go into detail about Banksy now, but I’ve also borrowed a lot from French artists. And in terms of graffiti, because I come from Vienna, I learned the Viennese style. In Vienna, everyone paints the graffiti the same way – that’s something you need to know. Graffiti is pure copying. You see what you find on the street and copy it into your own style and because of that it depends on which city you’re in!

Interviewer: Okay, does that also mean, for example, that Lunar has a Zagreb style?

Robin: Yes, exactly, Lunar will definitely tell you the same thing about Zagreb. Whereby Lunar does his own thing. He also goes a lot towards symbols. Lunar is the classic graffiti artist who at some point switched to street art because he realized that you can achieve more with it. That includes quite a few.

Interviewer: Well, then we come to the Graz questions. First of all, I would like to tell you that we happened to see your art in the shop „Bohemian Soul Beehive“ in Graz and immediately bought a bag from Bambsy!

Robin: Oh really? Funny, I got a notification shortly after we first wrote that one was sold. The donation from this sale happened to go to SOS Balkanroute!

Interviewer: Why did you decide to commemorate Srebrenica in Graz?

Robin: When I got the job, I was in Mostar, in Bosnia! For this project I went to Graz by bus, spent 2 days in Graz to implement the project and then I came back. In Graz, the number 8372 can be read relatively often on the walls of houses – that is the number of people who died in the Srebrenica genocide. That’s why I added them to the graffiti in Rosenkranzgasse and wanted to give them a face.

Interviewer: Why a woman’s face?

Robin: Exactly, why the woman when it was a genocide of mainly men and boys? There is this NGO, the association is called „The Mothers of Srebrenica“. These are the bereaved women who are still fighting in court for the failure of the Dutch army, which was supposed to look after them back then, and being held accountable for it. That’s why I chose a woman’s face. These women are still in existence. A few years ago, the Netherlands backtracked for the first time and admitted complicity. Nevertheless, the soldiers still have their medals and decorations. I hope there comes a point where they fully admit they screwed up. What is often not understood is that the chain of command didn’t work back then. The Netherlands tried to say, ‚Hey, we have a huge problem‘, but the UN didn’t bother, they just looked the other way.

Interviewer: Since you call yourself an Anarchist and you yourself have roots in Bosnia and Herzegovina – how come you were the first graffiti artist to paint a church in Graz? What does religion mean to you, especially considering how religion was instrumentalized in the Yugoslav wars?

Robin: It was even the first church in Austria! I was super proud when I painted the first picture. By the fourth, I didn’t really care, by then I was already apathetic. I was the first street art/graffiti artist who was allowed to paint graffiti on a listed church, which is now also listed as a monument. The answer as to why I was allowed to do this is actually quite banal – someone who knew my gallery owner worked in the evangelical church and that’s how I was placed. I also lived right next to the church. I lived in Graz for 7 years! The idea behind the graffiti was that Jesus Christ was holding this sign with „Do you need something?“ in reference to the drug dealers in the park, which is intended to show the ambiguity between what the drug dealers in the park are constantly saying and the invitation that people come to church. As explained in addition: Although I was brought up Roman Catholic myself, I am the classic agnostic. I grant everyone that they can believe what they want, but I don’t want to give a definitive statement as to what the truth is. So I’m very open to all faiths.

Interviewer: How did you get into graffiti art and what inspired you to create this one to choose a form of expression?

Robin: I started graffiti when I was 16 because I came from a home where, according to my psychotherapist, I was emotionally neglected and didn’t get any attention from my parents. So I started writing my name all over Vienna. My tag abbreviation, not my real name. It built my ego so much that I said okay, graffiti is cool, didn’t leave me with any lasting damage – maybe on the street it did – but it actually helped me a lot. I’m 42 now and when I was 29, I switched from graffiti to street art.

Interviewer: Have you worked with other artists from Southeastern Europe in your career? If so, can you describe one of your most memorable collaborations or projects?

Robin: I’m a person who doesn’t collaborate with other artists because I want to be 100% in control of my work because I’m a perfectionist. When it comes to actual collaborations, most of the time I give up control, let the other person do it, and just add a bit. I’ve guest-listed artists from Bosnia that I knew at some festivals I’ve been invited to. I also took people from Bosnia to Iceland, Spain, England, Estonia, Germany and France. I just know that the people there have no money to travel with. They’re super happy when they’re paid for a trip to France. This is a great opportunity and experience.

Interviewer: What impact do you think graffiti art has on the local community and its residents? How do you try to connect or engage your audience with your art? Were there any unusual reactions to your artworks that surprised you or that you found particularly meaningful?

Robin: I think the influence has even been proven by now. There are plenty of projects in run-down areas that can be upgraded with graffiti. That really helps and also promotes tourism, there’s a lot of work and statistics about it. I also try to connect with my audience with my art by creating beautiful things for them. For example, if a child walks past a wall with one of my graffiti on their way to school every day, I don’t want them to see anything negative. I always try to see the positive and there are also works of art that only work if you look at them from the right place. I would like to talk about the reactions in a little more detail.

This is one of my absolute favorite stories and I think the best feedback I’ve ever received. I was invited to Sisak, Croatia, for the first edition of a festival. The festival organizers told me that I motivated them to do the festival at all. That’s really nice. I drew a female Che Guevara, on a building wall directly across from a McDonald’s, which is quite appropriate because of the juxtaposition with capitalism. I then sold the whole thing as a „Girl Power“ story because I thought feminism always pulls. I’m a big supporter of people who think they need more rights! After a few weeks, however, the problem arose that an extremely left-wing person spray-painted party slogans and then spray-painted my picture of the female Guevara. But that upset some people, including the mayor, who also used the female Che Guevara for her election campaign. For me it was better that a leftist sprayed messages above it than right one, but they soon followed. The mayor was extremely upset about this – and invited me to paint the picture again. The first female Che Guevara, they call her Che Guevarica, was 3 meters high. Just before I arrived the area I was supposed to paint on was changed and it was now 10 meters high. Now there is a 10 meter tall female Che Guevarica graffiti across from Mc Donald’s. The mayor was very happy, and finally spotlights were even installed so that it is visible 24 hours a day. It also has 24-hour video surveillance that transmits directly to the police station. For me, as a former illegal graffiti painter, it’s extremely nice that the police is now monitoring my artworks. The image became a symbol of the city, so to speak, Che Guevarica is directly linked to Sisak. Not too long ago there was an earthquake in Sisak, which broke a few murals – including the Lunar painting, I think. Strangely enough, Che Guevarica didn’t get anything. For me that is the best experience. I’m glad that my art means something to people.

Interviewer: Were your graffitis always socially critical? When did you decide to do this kind of graffiti?

Robin: That was when I switched to street art. So at 29. But I also have to say that it is all well and good to point out grievances – but it might be wiser to also present the solutions once in a while – in other words, to practically reach the next level. And that’s relatively difficult.

Interviewer: Srebrenica is a highly sensitive and traumatic event. Were there any other projects where you represented traumatic projects?

Robin: Yes, of course! Also in Sisak. Before I came there, I did some research and saw that Sisak had the largest steel industry in Yugoslavia, but also the largest concentration camp for children in World War II. I then looked at the wall provided – it was so broken at the bottom that it looked like a ship’s hull with the bricks underneath. So then I added sails and added a reference to Peter Pan, Wendy etc. who are flying on the ship towards no man’s land.. with the saying: „Once you are grown up, you can never come back“. That was really touching, people also cried. The Peter Pan graffiti was also seen in a BBC presentation about Sisak. I was happy about that, which means that somehow about 1% of the world’s population has already seen my graffiti, if you look at how many viewers BBC has. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFm4t1Q-JUI&feature=youtu.be)

Interviewer: Have you encountered problems such as censorship or opposition from authorities or individuals who disagreed with your artistic depictions of political figures or events?

Robin: I sat with our dear City Councilor for Culture, at that time Lisa Rückert from the Green Party. I was sent to the head of the municipal housing department in Graz because they said we could paint the municipal building walls. That was before I was in Sisak – actually I wanted to paint the female Che Guevara! The boss then just said, ‚That can’t happen. It cannot happen. Because my boss is Mrs. Kahr”. So today’s mayor, a member of the communist party, can’t do that. She might have wanted to, but it’s just not possible. He then wanted me to do something related to Styria. I asked sarcastically if I should paint a woman in a Dirndl. At this the man was delighted. All I can say is I didn’t do it and moved to Bosnia 2 weeks later. In Croatia, the Che Guevarica was accepted as a gift. Che Guevara has nothing to do with Elke Kahr. It bothers me that everything is always so politicized. I really wanted to implement a lot of socio-political images, but I always got no’s. They don’t want anything that makes people think.

Interviewer: The EU is often criticized for its restrictive policies towards non-EU citizens. How do you address this inequality in your work?

Robin: I did a few works that are clearly anti-EU. I’m not a big fan of the EU, but I understand that it’s important for Europe that it exists. I just don’t like this monotony. The direction we’re going as a society, that we’re all the same, wear the same clothes, listen to the same music, watch the same movies. Well, I think it would be nice if we Europeans could live together in peace without now giving up our cultural identity and somehow adapting this mainstream Netflix mush as our lifestyle. Irrespective of this, I am also firmly convinced that we, as the rich first world, are responsible for promoting conditions in other countries so that people do not have to flee here from there. I was in a refugee camp in Serbia for six months, had a lot to do with the people and know their stories. I would immediately open every border for these people so that they can come here. I also incorporated that into my work. There are illegal pushbacks. I actually saw children being beaten by Croatian border police five years ago. Yet our politicians are adamant that there are no pushbacks. It’s crazy that you have the hardness to lie like that in public.

Interviewer: Have you ever dealt with the former Yugoslavia artistically, apart from the Srebrenica graffiti?

Robin: Yes, do you know Bogdan Bogdanovic? He was the mayor of Belgrade. He was a philosopher and architect; he built a lot of monuments. Among other things, Jasenovac, the memorial for concentration camp victims. I have used many of his motifs.

Interviewer: Are there certain cases, people or stories from the history of the region that you think are often overlooked or underrepresented and that you might even want to draw attention to with your art?

Robin: I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily underrepresented, but I do care about the fate of Muslims in Bosnia. This existence between Catholic Croats and Orthodox Serbs. There is a very serious imbalance in Bosnia and I’m really afraid that sooner or later the Muslims there will have massive problems. If something blatant doesn’t happen soon, there could be a civil war. And here’s something I want to say against America: They are the reason this isn’t working today. They made this Dayton Agreement with the 3 entities and 3 different population groups and since this pact in 1995 until today it has not succeeded in creating equal rights. Bosnia is just lost, even if nobody dares to speak about it. To put it bluntly, Bosnia was stillborn from the start. People are stalled and couldn’t create an identity as a result. This is an absolute disaster. And unfortunately Bosnia is not the only area where something like this is happening. Where things don’t go the way they should.

Interviewer: Thank you for the interview and for your time.

Robin: Thanks too, and if there are any questions, I’m always available!

Slaven „Lunar“ Kosanović

“Communication with the outside allows projects to happen, by remaining at home and sketching nothing would probably happen.”

Slaven Kosanović, who is more commonly recognized as Lunar, is a Croatian artist involved in graphic and street art. Besides being a philosopher with a wide range of interests, he developed a passion for music and art from a young age. In 1989, he embarked on his artistic journey when he started using spray paint. Over the course of three decades, Lunar has played a remarkable role in the evolution of graffiti, which has transformed from a subculture to a recognized art form. Additionally, he has witnessed and actively participated in the interwoven developments of graffiti, hip hop, and electronic music subcultures, contributing to their eventual widespread acceptance in mainstream culture. (https://museumofnonvisibleart.com/interviews/slaven-lunar-kosanovic/)

Interviewer: Where are you originally from? Where did you grow up? Where are your parents originally from?

Lunar: I was born and raised in Zagreb. My father was born in Valpovo, Croatia and my mother in Zagreb. My Grandparents from my father’s side were born in Valpovo (mom) and Paklenica (dad), while my mother’s parents were born in Svrzevo (mom) and Zagreb (father). I started to draw a nice family tree, but there’s still much work to finish.

Interviewer: Can you tell us about the graffiti scene in Southeastern Europe and where you grew up?

Lunar: There was a small scene in Zagreb during the 1980’s. Besides that I witnessed some older works in Split, too. For the other cities, (the entire Southeastern Europe) I can not tell for sure, although I believe there might have been some pioneer moves in some other cities as well. The Zagreb scene from that period did not leave much for us to learn. There were maybe 10 pieces around Zagreb when I was starting, so we were looking up to foreign magazines, movies and video clips. Our start was most likely very similar like the one in the 1980’s, cheeky and full of great expectations.

Interviewer: Are there any unique elements or styles that you incorporate into your work, or any specific artists or movements that have influenced or inspired you?

Lunar: There are many artists who influenced my work. Loomit, Os Gemeos, Delta, Merda, Puzler, Mode 2, to name a few. Some elements I use are very typical graffiti ornaments like arrows, bubbles, sashes etc. In the early days we were ashamed if some imperfection or a drip happened, nowadays I believe most pieces should contain drips, fogs and some precise lines. Precise lines to show a skill and the other two because they are typical for the spraycan medium… Oh, and a bunch of cats.

Interviewer: What made you decide to take Lunar as a name?

Lunar: My father brought a ZX Spectrum computer home and I was playing a game called “Lunar Jetman”. The prefix caught my attention so I took it for my pseudonym, even before I started painting on walls.

Interviewer: What is your opinion about the graffiti scene in Graz? We know that your activities are mostly based in Zagreb, do you find some specific similarities/differences between the two scenes that you might want to share with us?

Lunar: My first visits to Austria happened in my early childhood, so for me important things were brands like Lego and Jolly. Also, like the Zagreb guys from Novi Kvadrat, Mirko Ilicć Igor Kordej, Krešo Zimonić, also some Belgrade guys like Dušan Petričić or Jugoslav Vlahović. There was a TV show “Nedjeljni zabavnik” which usually hosted one interesting popular person, like a singer or actor, who then shared favorite movie, music, experiences etc. I loved Yugoslav version of “Top of the pops”, called “Hit meseca”. I loved the Slovenian group Videosex, Croatian bands Boa, Denis & Denis, to mention only a few, there were many more. I loved old Yugoslavian movies, like “Tko pjeva, zlo ne misli” or “Imam dvije mame i dva tate”, “Otac na sluzbenom putu” and others. There were lovely children’s series, like “Smogovci” or “Jelenko”, too. Witnessing the last decade of Yugoslavia as a child was interesting and inspiring. I have no exact idea what kind of impression might have someone from outside but we were not behind the iron curtain like DDR or Hungary, for example. Several weeks ago I saw a fantastic exhibition “Eine Stadt wird bunt”, in the Historische Museum of Hamburg and there is a room decorated like a teen room from the 1980’s. I did not spot many differences from my own room at the time, I had to sit there for a while and it felt very emotional. Also not long ago, the short series “Reign Supreme” was uploaded on Netflix, about the rise of the Paris hip-hop crew “Supreme NTM”. It also felt very familiar to our childhood. Just without the war, of course.

Interviewer: Starting from the beginning of your career: can you tell us more about YCP? Do you know some other relevant groups that are similar to it?

Lunar: The YCP were a bunch of guys who became friends and hung out together. Like all teenagers, we were trying to find our own ways in life. Seeing it from today’s perspective it might even be seen as some social experiment since more than 80 names spent some time with us, and that is just a small number according to the number of people we got in touch with during 30 years. I am still in touch with the majority of members today.

Interviewer: We read that in 2009 you founded your company „Lunar Design“. How does that project and your work as a designer in general intertwine with your activity as a street artist? How did your career change?

Lunar: It was actually a craft, its full name is ‚Lunar – the design craft‘. At that point my experience was obviously not sufficient to win a status for an independent artist, I applied once, but was refused so I looked for the other way. Finding a way to legally issue your bills was a must and I witnessed some good and bad experiences with the people I was working for. It is not a secret that capitalist system basically means “Exploit whoever you can, as much as you can”. I am not some anarchist guy, but sometimes I feel cornered in  this world.

Interviewer: Have you collaborated with other artists from Austria/Graz in your career? If so, could you describe one of your most memorable collaborations or projects?

Lunar: Like mentioned in one of the previous questions, the only artist from Graz I have met was Marvin. For the rest of Austria, my first contacts were Levin and Peter from Wien, in the years to come I have met Shue, Papst, Phekt and others from Wien, Rok2 + Hnrx from Innsbruck, Poidl and Shed from Linz. I visit Levin Jam annually and all the pieces I paint in Wien carry the name of my friend Levin, in honor of one truly good person that I had the luck to meet and paint with in both Zagreb and Wien.

Interviewer: In your opinion, what impact does graffiti art have on the local community and its residents? How do you aim to connect with or engage your audience through your art? Have you encountered any particular reactions/responses/opposition to your artwork that have surprised you or that you found particularly meaningful?

Lunar: Simple forms of graffiti like tags and quicks have the ability of irritating the inhabitants. Some people even tend to do those as ugly as possible and desperately try to stick it up everyone’s nose. Even though I come from the graffiti field, I am super annoyed by them. I am equally annoyed by hearing comments from the passers-by who have an urge to comment on your work, for a simple reason you are within their reach of the reaction and they need to say something because they want to feel alive and gain some weight to their phrases. Reactions are usually affirmative but simply redundant. Like when you encounter the baker or a tram driver in order to comment on his work, nothing offensive usually but keep your thoughts to yourself, let people do their duty. I post my works on social media and answer the interviews because it might send a message further than simply painting your work and leaving it there. Communication with the outside allows projects to happen, by remaining at home and sketching nothing would probably happen. Graffiti, street art, urban art, whatever names hipsters might come up with these days, have the ability to affect our lives. They can enrich our surroundings, make our view more interesting and pleasant.

Some people prefer dead-boring gray surfaces. Some graffiti can make you feel like you are in a dangerous surrounding, which no one truly enjoys. To cut a long story short, our work could be great but there are some people who feel like grabbing a spraycan and even some more terrible (and dangerous) people who are constructing buildings and cleaning the green areas, all for the sake of massive profits.

Interviewer: How does your artwork engage, challenge and\or respond to socio-political issues? Is there any specific link to the region of ex-Yugoslavia? Are there specific symbols, imagery, or cultural references from/linked to that context that you aim to represent through your artwork? Or any particular project that you took part in where this occurred (like the collaboration you made with yo.pecador „There’s a world outside your window And it’s a world of dread and fear“)? Could you tell us about it/them?

Lunar: “There’s a world outside your window” is a regular way I borrow lyrics from songs or books which inspire me. There’s hardly a more inspiring moment within pop culture than Band Aid / Live Aid. Nevermind the final outcome, the idea, the energy, the process and the creative results were stunning and I can not think of any other projects that could be compared, even close, to it. There are plenty of other quotes I used for my works, you can check some in my book ‘From Zagreb with Love‘, but I am glad you have chosen the mentioned one. “The world of dread and fear” is the world exactly how I see it. Please don’t mistake it for some conspiracy theory, I am just trying to point out some simple but serious moments. The world might seem funny if you belong to the minority who sinks in consumerism. Some people work hard and fail in order to raise their kids to understand empathy, consequences, deeper meaning of anything. It is “Me, myself and I” for them. For some, life is way harder and they try their best in achieving the status of the first group. And for the huge majority, the world is in a constant struggle to survive, yet, if they succeed, they also aim for the first two groups. The smallest group is conscious and tries to learn and evolve. I believe they stand absolutely no chance. During history, they were the ones who pushed society and the masses were not thankful but simply took their inventions. The difference between now and before is the amount of populations. If I spent all my time in Croatia I would probably have kids now and feel less worried. I believe I did not see the worst things but quite enough to get a more accurate picture of the world surrounding us. Therefore I am not going to sit and complain or cry, but keep on working in order to make things better, first for my close ones and myself, which automatically includes for the rest.